From romance classics to underground crime thrillers, John Lloyd Cruz is the quintessential image of the contemporary leading man. For nearly three decades, he personified romantic and familial ideals, shaping what it means to be masculine in the urban space. But after a while, the demands of being a household name — fulfilling formulas, meeting “quotas,” maintaining a celebrity image, crowds of people saying he’s made it — trapped him into a brand he was tired of selling.

“Siguro meron akong hinahanap na gusto kong malaman, meron akong gustong itanong pero hindi ko alam kung paano i-articulate,” he says. “Bakit ganito yung pakiramdam? Bakit ganito dito? Bakit ganito yung behavior natin? Bakit tayo ginaganito?”

In the years he pursued these questions, Cruz found filmmaker Lav Diaz, who began his directing career in the same window of time as Cruz in the 1990s. While the collaboration is initially an anomaly to observers, Cruz and Diaz’s upward trajectories paralleled — the former in commercial cinema, the latter in the international arthouse world — and their partnership is not only a logical progression for their careers but a seemingly inevitable one. The two enrich each other’s cinema through their collaboration — with Cruz connecting Diaz to a wider audience, and Diaz providing a playground for Cruz to discover. In the midst of their initial collaborations, Cruz took a hiatus from mainstream media in October 2017, only returning after he signed with Maja Salvador’s Crown Artist Management in May 2021 and transferred to GMA Network in November 2021.

In bringing to life a suite of morally complex characters in Diaz’s worlds — from the idealist Isagani in “Hele sa Hiwagang Hapis” (2016) to the troubled transgender woman Hollanda in “Ang Babaeng Humayo” (2016) to the Huk insurgent turned ventriloquist Hernando Alamada and his puppet Ha in “Historya ni Ha” (2021) — Cruz seems to have resolved the questions that pushed him to the peripheries. Though he is now back to working on mainstream fare, making regular appearances as Julian in the GMA sitcom “Happy ToGetHer” and starring and serving as creative producer the upcoming Bor Ocampo dark comedy film “Moneyslapper,” his collaboration with Diaz has profoundly changed his outlook in the industry.

This year’s releases — “Isang Salaysay ng Karahasang Pilipino” and “Kung Wala Nang Mga Alon” — are a culmination of their years of working together. “Isang Salaysay ng Karahasang Pilipino,” which premiered earlier at FID Marseille, is based on the acclaimed short story “Servando Magdamag” by National Artist Ricky Lee, sees Cruz portraying three diametrically opposed characters — a haciendero, a mass murderer, and a woman — whose lives are thrown into disarray during the martial law years. While “Kung Wala Nang Mga Alon,” which will premiere Out of Competition at the Venice International Film Festival later this year, finds Cruz taking revenge on an old friend after being imprisoned for three decades. Both profound dissections of state sponsored violences, Cruz becomes the face of the country’s eroding psyche and spirit. By disappearing into the roles he and Diaz create together, Cruz allows the scars of our collective history of subjugation to resurface.

In anticipation of “Kapag Wala Nang Mga Alon” at Venice and the release of “Isang Salaysay ng Karahasang Pilipino” through iWantTFC as a series, Diaz and I sat down with Cruz to talk about acting as cultural work, why cinema can’t be made just for cinema’s sake, and the privilege of being part of Lav’s love letters to the country. This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity. — Jason Tan Liwag

Jason Tan Liwag: Do you remember the first time you met each other?

John Lloyd Cruz: Sa labas ba ng Hit [Productions Inc.]?

Lav Diaz: ‘Yung nag-inuman tayong tatlo [nila Erwin Romulo, ]. ‘Yun ba ‘yun? [A pause.] Di ko na maalala eh.

John Lloyd Cruz: Either ‘yun o sa labas ng Hit.

Lav Diaz: For years, wala akong telebisyon. So hindi ko napapanood si John. Pero lagi kong kakapihan sina Ronnie Lazaro. And everytime na makakasama ko sina Ronnie, sinasabi niya: “Isama natin si John Lloyd, tol. Anak ko siya sa isang teleserye.” Marami akong narinig tungkol sa kanya. Akala ko nga nung una British siya kasi John Lloyd. “British ba ‘yun?” Tapos sabi ni Ronnie: “Gago! Pinoy yan!” (Laughs)

Jason Tan Liwag: What was your first impression of Lav’s work?

John Lloyd Cruz: Wala kasi wala pa akong idea sa kung anong ginagawa niya. Ang hindi ko makakalimutan is ‘yung first experience ko inside his cinema.

Lav Diaz: (Laughs)

John Lloyd Cruz: Ang ganda pa nung setting. Bumyahe kami. Pumunta kaming Bulusan after Sorsogon. Doon daw ‘yung eksena. Gabi. Tapos ang lakas ng hangin. Tapos [sabi sa amin]: “Kayo na raw! Next na kayo.” Pagpunta ko, ka-eksena ko si Piolo [Pascual]. Tapos [sinabi] dito ‘yung blocking niyo.

Hinahanap ko… asan ‘yung camera? “Basta dito kami? Dito? Dito? Gagalaw ba kami?” Hindi ko makalimutan after mag-clapper, ang tagal rin. Mga ilang seconds rin… literally hindi ko alam kung anong nangyayari. Doon ko lang ulit naramdaman na, akala mo meron ka nang nakasanayan at ilang years ka nang gumagawa ng pelikula, biglang ganoon. Feeling ko doon kami unang nagkakilala.

Jason Tan Liwag: What made you agree for the first time on “Hele sa Hiwagang Hapis?”

John Lloyd Cruz: Malaking factor ‘yung mga kaibigan namin. It’s based on trust. Si Ronnie [Lazaro], si Erwin [Romulo]. Napaka-elemental ‘yung bond, ‘yung trust, with the friends. Kasi hindi pa ako familiar sa cinema ni Direk. Ang alam ko lang [tungkol kay] Lav Diaz is meron tayong representation, especially sa iba’t ibang dako ng mundo, through his cinema. Pero hindi ko kayang mag-pretend noon na may ideya na ako kung ano ‘yun. Wala pa talaga. Totally clueless.

READ: The inside story of Lav Diaz’s new 8-hour epic

Lav Diaz: It’s the same with me. And of course, sila ni Piolo ‘yung mukha ng pop culture. You’d see them everywhere — billboards, ads, pagbukas mo ng magazines, andoon sila. And you’d hear good things about them. So it’s great na finally nagkasama kami sa sine. Cinema for me is not confined to just one sector. Para sa akin, gusto kong isama lahat. I want to work with popular actors, with non-actors, theater actors.

I kind of like that dichotomy. You’re a pariah in the industry and then you’re working with their biggest stars? The two of them together! Nabigla sila! (Laughs) It’s a good mix. Ang ganda nung effect nun sa akin. Finally, nakikita nila na encompassing ang kultura eh. Walang barriers talaga ang cinema: walang independent, walang industry. It’s just fucking cinema.

John Lloyd Cruz: Oo eh. Para bang hindi mo alam kung sinong outsider? Walang outsider kasi nasa isang umbrella kayo.

Lav Diaz: Sila lang naman gumagawa nun eh.

John Lloyd Cruz: I share the same sentiment. Sinasabi ni Direk na kami daw yung biggest stars? Kapag nakita mo si Direk sa Europe, ‘yun talaga ‘yung superstar! (Laughs)

Lav Diaz: Ipinaliwanag ko kay Charo [Santos-Concio]. Nagulat siya noon. Wala talagang wall. You just think about the medium as part of the culture. Wala ‘yung big star, non-star. It’s just cinema.

READ: Charo Santos and her triumphant return to film in Lav Diaz’s ‘Ang Babaeng Humayo’

John Lloyd Cruz: Di ko makalimutan kung paano binigyan [ni direk] ng context ‘yung ginagawa namin. Kasi oo may commercial, may independent; may big studios, may mas modest ‘yung production. Pero totoo na lahat kami nagtatrabaho para sa kultura. Nung binanggit ni direk: “Lahat tayo cultural workers.” Pantay-pantay tayo. Ang ganda nung context na nalapat niya, kasi doon nagiging, kumbaga, pantay-pantay. Walang superstar dito.

Lav Diaz: Wag nating ikahon lang na ang manggagagawa sa kultura ay ‘yung aktibista o ‘yung social worker. Pati ‘yung biggest stars, kasama sila diyan. Sila ang nag-i-imbento ng kultura araw-araw, it’s evolving. We’re all involved in this. Magkakasama tayo. Kaya nagpasalamat nung umoo kayo. Now, nawasak ‘yung wall. You can work together. Salamat naman, may pitong taong nanood ng “Hele.”

(Room erupts in laughter)

Jason Tan Liwag: How has your collaboration changed over time?

John Lloyd Cruz: Ang ganda kasi nung sini-symbolize nung moment na ‘yun [in the forest]. Kasi may preconceived notion ka na, may mga nabuo ka na based on your experiences. Pero mula noon, palawak lang ng palawak ‘yung appreciation and understanding [nung] ginagalawan mo. Hindi lang siya natatapos sa cinema. Kasi kung para sa cinema lang siya, parang ang superficial noon.

Lav Diaz: Oo, wala ‘yun.

John Lloyd Cruz: Kasi kung hindi maapektuhan ‘yung pagkatao, ‘yung buhay, ‘yung kung paano mag-i-improve ang kamalayan, kung paano mo mas nauunawaan ‘yung mga nagaganap na pang-araw-araw na struggles natin… hindi siya natatapos sa cinema eh. Kumbaga, nagiging instrumental lang ang cinema.

Lav Diaz: Ang gandang point noon. Kasi it’s a continuing process, continuing education, doing cinema. In the case of “Historya ni Ha,” we found a place called Sibaltan [in Palawan and] the whole group — karamihan mga taga-Manila — we go there [at] ‘yung pag-aral nung kultura nung bayan na ‘yun, kasama rin sa cinema experience ‘yun. ‘Yung nasa isang area kayo and [you learn] the geopolitics of the place, the character of the place. After a while, you have a greater understanding of your own culture. Ganito pala ang Pilipino, ganito pala kami nahubog.

Kasi nakikita mo! It’s not a set. It’s a real place and real people live there, kasalamuha namin. And it adds to the texture and the context of the film. Nagiging mas substantial because nadadagdag mo araw-araw [‘yung] nuances, the verisimilitudes of the place. Pati ‘yung amoy, ‘yung init, ‘yung atmosphere, ‘yung climate, and ‘yung longings ng mga tao pag kausap mo sila, nadadagdag mo ‘yun. [You get] a greater understanding of humanity afterwards.

Jason Tan Liwag: What about in “Ang Babaeng Humayo?”

Lav Diaz: I remember nung ginagawa ko yung characters. Kasama ko si Hazel [Orencio], nagka-casting kami sa Starbucks. “Tanungin mo nga si John kung okay siya sa role na ito.” Random lang. “John, okay ka lang ba sa role na transgender?” Sumagot siya ng yes. Very simple. Walang walls. Kahit anong character, papasukin niya.

People don’t know this: For two months, he was studying. Nag-aral talaga siya. Ilang attempts yan ng pagdadamit, paggagalaw. Nakuha niya. Pinag-aralan niya. And during the shoot, takot kami sa kanya, untouchable siya. Ang hirap niyang tignan kasi “andoon” na siya eh.

John Lloyd Cruz: Pero naaalala ko sobrang insecure ako noon. ‘Yun yata ‘yung feeling niya? Totoo ‘yung struggle — may physicalization, may appearance kang inaalala. Napaka-insecure [ni Hollanda] eh. [Feeling ko] ang laki ng braso ko. Mas nangingibabaw ‘yun. When you do role, pareho kayong nag-e-exist sa katawan mo eh. So minsan, pakiramdam mo: “Ang laki ng braso ko.”

Lav Diaz: Pero I remember how effective the delineation was kasi we were shooting most of the scenes sa isang bahay. At ‘yung caretaker na babae, she kept asking: “Kailan po darating si John Lloyd?” Hindi niya alam na si John Lloyd, nakaupo na doon! Sa last day ng shoot namin sinabi sa kanya: “Si John Lloyd ‘yun.” Ganoon ka effective. Hindi niya lang pinasok as a caricature na ‘yung acting na madaling gumalaw-galaw. It’s more of also understanding the culture ng mga transgenders. Importante ‘yun eh. You respect that culture.

Jason Tan Liwag: If you compare your first time on set to now with “Servando Magdamag” and “Kapag Wala Na Ang Mga Alon,” how has your relationship as actor and director changed?

John Lloyd Cruz: Wala namang pinagbago.

Lav Diaz: Mas malalim yung trust, of course.

John Lloyd Cruz: Oo.

Lav Diaz: Ang relationship kasi namin ng crew ko, we’re like a family. Parang banda. You don’t even have to talk. Ibigay mo lang ‘yung script and then you see each other sa shoot. Alam mo nang may ibibigay si John. You have that kind of trust. Wala nang ibang diskurso. We talk about things other than the film na shinu-shoot. Kapag break, ano ‘yung shampoo na ginagamit namin o kailan ka nahulugan ng bunga ng niyog. Mga ibang pinag-uusapan.

John Lloyd Cruz: Si Direk, hindi naman siya nagbabago. So kung paano namin ginagawa ‘yung eksena. Halimbawa: “John, ito ‘yung frame. Dito ka manggagaling. May iba kang blocking.” Pero ‘yun lang naman ‘yun.

Lav Diaz: Instructional na lang.

John Lloyd Cruz: Elemental ‘yung alam mong malaya ka. ‘Yung work, hindi siya drastically nagbabago — na ito mas mahirap ito. Hindi eh. Depende sayo eh. Depende kung paano mo siya kukutkutin.

Lav Diaz: Ang hirap on their part. Nung last shoot? Grabe. ‘Yung “Alon” — may psoriasis siya, nagde-decay ‘yung katawan niya. You can understand ‘yung process ni John na, even for the actors, even with Ronnie, nagde-decay ‘yung soul niya. Nasa abyss silang dalawa [at] ang hirap nilang tignan. You suffer with them because of the process na pinapasok nila. Eh nasa lockdown pa kami. Takot na takot kami sa virus. Everyone is going mad sa dami ng nangyayari. Tapos madness pa ‘yung shino-shoot namin na mga characters nila. Everyday, may process sila.

Jason Tan Liwag: Is it hard to get into? And is it even harder to shake off?

John Lloyd Cruz: Hindi ko alam if completely napapagpag mo siya eh. Maraming nag-si-stick. Together with all the learnings and the discoveries, hindi ka pwedeng maging selective. May maiiwan at maiiwan sa iyo. Hindi naman pwedeng pipiliin mo lang na ‘yung maganda lang ‘yung maiwan. Ideally, oo. That’s why may effort to retain the good. Pero totoo ba talaga ‘yun? May maiiwan at maiiwan na ayaw mong husgahan kung mabuti ba siya o masama.

Lav Diaz: You want it to be honest.

Jason Tan Liwag (to John Lloyd): Dito sa “Servando” at “Alon,” ano ‘yung naiwan?

Lav Diaz: It’s more difficult for “Servando.” He played three characters in Servando — isang haciendero, isang mass murderer, isang babae. Awang-awa kami sa kanya. You do these three characters, ‘yung preparation pa lang. You can understand the suffering of the actor minsan, so we give him time.

John Lloyd Cruz: Tsaka direk, napaisip ako: Kaya ko pa ba ‘to? (Laughs) ‘Yung naiiwan siguro is ‘yung mas lumalawak ‘yung pang-unawa mo sa pangkalahatan.

Lav Diaz: Sa tao.

John Lloyd Cruz: Kasi may mga tao talagang ganito. And if anything, mas mauunawaan mo… Hindi ko sinasabing I can identify with them completely after portraying a role. Pero habang ginagawa mo siya, kailangan mong i-experience ‘yung suffering niya, ‘yung struggles niya. Ang maiiwan siguro [ay] kumakapal ‘yung pang-unawa mo, mas lumalawak. Somehow, mas may… empathy eh?

Halimbawa, may isang naakusahan na isa siyang kriminal, isa siyang mamamatay tao. (Slaps hands together) Hindi ganoon kaagad ‘yung pagpataw mo ng judgement eh. Hindi ko sinasabing malalim ‘yung karanasan o ‘yung understanding. Pero ‘yung konting ‘yun, nakatulong para hindi ganoon kabilis ‘yung panghuhusga.

Lav Diaz: There’s the dialectics. Kailangan ang pagtingin natin sa tao, dialectical. You always investigate: “Bakit siya pumatay? Saan nanggagaling itong taong ito? What’s the reason bakit niya pinatay?” Dapat lagi nating pinapairal ‘yung rational eh, with issues of moral lines and judgment; on truth and lies. May reason [and] there’s this provenance — this long history.

The same thing when you examine our own history, kung bakit ganito ka-dysfunctional ang Filipino society. May pinanggagalingan tayo. Ang dugo ng history natin — more than 300 years of Spain, almost a hundred years of America, four years of Japanese rape, 17 years of brutal martial law. Ang dami nating pinanggagalingan kaya tayo ganito eh. Dapat dialectical ang activity ng tao talaga. Don’t easily say things, don’t easily judge. Empathy is the better word for that, for all things.

John Lloyd Cruz: ‘Yung mga naiiwan talaga, halos hindi sila nag-e-exist sa harapan ng camera. A lot of the things na naiiwan sa iyo… ‘yung experiences, memories, oo. Pero ‘yung mga bagay na may bagong pang-unawa na hindi natatapos sa sinehan. ‘Yung napapanood, iba ‘yun. ‘ung takeaway mo talaga, hindi kasama sa nakunan.

Jason Tan Liwag: Do you ever feel burdened by your characters? With the weight or responsibility of embodying them?

John Lloyd Cruz: That’s a privilege. Pag talagang mae-experience mo ‘yung burden nung character, that’s a privilege. ‘Yun ‘yung magic nung portrayal. ‘Yung naramdaman mo talaga. Bihira ‘yun eh. ‘Yung mabubuhay talaga siya? ‘Yung nag-exist talaga siya sa iyo? ‘Yung nag-exist ‘yung struggles niya at dumaan sa iyo? Tingin ko, yun ata ‘yung pinakanakakaadik na part ng trabaho ko. Para maranasan mo ‘yung burden niya, ‘yung struggle niya, ang swerte mo.

Lav Diaz: Kaya minsan, nagtataka rin ako sa ibang actors. They play so many great roles, so many varied characters, pero hindi pa rin nagbabago ‘yung ugali nila! (Laughs) I-portray mo ang isang manggagawa, isang bum, isang napaka-iconic na tao. But when they get out of these characters, they’re the same assholes. Wala kayong nakuha? May mga kaibigan akong ganyan eh. “Huh? Ganyan ka pa rin, ‘tol?” Umarte ka lang without understanding humanity? Bahagi ng cultural activity mo yun. Acting is — ang ganda nung explanation mong yun — a privilege, na na-e-experience mo yung na-e-experience niya. It will make you a better person. Definitely. Kung malawak yung empathy mo.

Jason Tan Liwag (to John Lloyd): How do you not let it consume you?

Lav Diaz: Nakakatakot, ano?

John Lloyd Cruz: Sana mas natututunan ko pa kung paano. Kasi minsan naapektuhan talaga ako emotionally [sa] kung ano ang ginagawa sa lipunan. Kung paano [tayo] ginagawang kasangkapan for personal gains? Ang sakit-sakit. Pero hindi pwedeng lugmok ka lang. Kaya ko siya tinatawag na privilege. Kung makikita mo yung opportunity, kung paano siya pwedeng mag-mutate and in a way na makatulong sa iyo para makatulong ka rin, then tingin ko it served its purpose. Nakakauplift kahit paano. (Pauses) Mukha bang hindi ako nako-consume? (Laughs). Pero talagang didibdibin mo eh. Kailangan mong humanap ng paraan para umusad, lumabas. Kasi kung hindi, walang silbi kung lugmok ka lang.

Jason Tan Liwag: How do you see acting now compared to before?

John Lloyd Cruz: Hindi ko alam kung iniisip ko pa ‘yung acting. Hindi siya acting na lang eh. Importante is ‘yung story. Ano ba ‘yung gusto nating ibahagi? Opportunity siya. Hindi ko na siya tinitignan as: “Okay, sa pelikulang ito, gusto ko ganito ako.”

Lav Diaz: (Laughs)

John Lloyd Cruz: Ganoon kasi dati di ba? Parang mas image building. Ano ‘yung formula na kailangang i-deliver, ‘yung quota. Mas ganoon siya siguro. A lot of it, mandated eh. A lot of it, imposed sa iyo. You have to look a certain way. You have to have a certain haircut. Ngayon, mas iniintindi mo ‘yung opportunity. Ano ‘yung makikita natin dito? Anong gustong sabihin nung filmmaker? I see it as an opportunity para matuto, para in return meron tayong mababalik.

Jason Tan Liwag: Following that thread, what are Lav’s films an opportunity for?

John Lloyd Cruz: Siguro [pagkakataon siya na] mapasama sa liham niya para sa bansa. Nandoon ka sa liham ni Lav para sa bansa. It’s a good opportunity.

Jason Tan Liwag: John, you were an executive producer for “Honor Thy Father.” Do you see yourself writing, producing, directing future work? If so, anong klaseng kwento ‘yung gusto mong ibahagi?

Lav Diaz: He writes poetry.

John Lloyd Cruz: Di ko alam kung poetry ‘yung tawag doon. Words. (Pauses) Direk, sobrang nakakarelate ako kay Peng.

Lav Diaz: Peng Xiao?

John Lloyd Cruz: Meron kasing naging estudyante si direk nung nagturo siya sa Cuba.

Lav Diaz: Apat sila. Sumama sila sa amin sa “Historya ni Ha.”

John Lloyd Cruz: Si Peng, hindi pa siya makagawa ng film niya kasi hindi niya mailabas ‘yung camera. Andoon na siya, highly immersed na sa material na ‘yun, pero hindi niya mailabas ‘yung camera kasi nasisira. Nasisira ‘yung moment. And sobrang nakakarelate ako doon.

Kung gusto ko na ‘yung nakikita ko, hindi naman sa ayaw ko siyang i-share para ma-experience ng iba [o] para meron rin silang makuha doon. Pero andoon ako ngayon. Hindi ko mailabas ‘yung camera ko. Gusto ko munang mag-observe. Gusto ko munang malaman kung anong gusto kong sabihin, kung paano ko ‘yun sasabihin.

Lav Diaz: Hintayin namin ‘yun, John. Ilabas mo na ‘yung camera.

“A Tale of Filipino Violence” premiered at FID Marseille in July 2022, while “When the Waves are Gone” will be premiering out of competition at the 2022 Venice International Film Festival in September 2022.

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Photos by JL JAVIER
Styling by DAVID MILAN
Cover design by THE PUBLIC SCHOOL MANILA
Produced by DON JAUCIAN
Special thanks to HAZEL ORENCIO and GABBY CANTERO